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Imagine you work for the intelligence service...

By Roshan Doug on Jun 19, 08 10:31 AM in

After a long painstakingly laborious investigation lasting years and involving a whole range of coordinated surveillance activities with the cooperation from a number of agencies at home and abroad - you've managed to track down a dangerous, deluded individual who is a threat to our national security and the safety of British people. He's also one of the top men in an infamous terrorist network which the allied forces are trying to infiltrate and destroy.

He goes to court and is convicted of recruiting young political extremists and plotting terrorist activities all over Europe. You want him locked up, the police want him locked up, the government and indeed, parliament want him locked up.

Would you be a little miffed, therefore, if your Court of Appeal decided that this man not only must be let out in the community but cannot be deported to his home country lest he should be tortured? Wouldn't you think that the safety of our country with 60 odd million people should take precedent over the safety of a potential mass murderer who - given the chance - is willing to kill innocent British people going about their ordinary business? Wouldn't you also think that your senior judges in their infinite wisdom would uphold the importance of your safety as an innocent law-abiding servant before the safety of a convicted foreign terrorist to whom you - very likely - are a prime target?

Read my take on Abu Qatada and the Court of Appeal's ruling in my Birmingham Post column tomorrow (Friday 20th June).

10 Comments

Ursula said:

I have always had romantic notions of being a latter day Mata Hary.


Roshan, you sweetly asked me for my input. You raised a subject neither of much interest to me nor one I am well versed in.


There are many angles to the hook you have thrown. First of all, let's forget the well worn word 'innocent'. We might be as unblemished as a new born baby or as guilty as sin, nobody should be killed by another human; nor should we - knowingly - extradite someone to the danger of torture.


Considering that, until not that long ago, people were executed for lesser crimes, it is the British judiciary which needs to look into its own heart. England is known to be the land of no written constitution, yet of "fair play", of giving "the benefit of the doubt". However, and one really can only but smile at the irony of it, ASBOS are dished out like pills at the apothecary yet the likes of Qatada roam (though I do understand there are some restrictions to his movements - maybe a type of terrorist's Asbo).


Leaving the fat Qatada aside for a moment, the threat of terrorism is exaggerated. It makes for good copy, for a little bit of mass hysteria, long queues at the airport, mainly serving to divert attention away from political and social issues which if worked on with the same zeal would have a far greater impact on improving our lives.


Al-Qaeda catches our imagination, like being spooked when walking through a forest at the dead of night. But it is a pussycat compared to, by way of example, what the IRA did to this country.


And before you ask, no, I don't use the London underground any longer (just in case).


U - PS I am probably dead already.

Ursula said:

Roshan, I find it slightly disconcerting how restrained the good people of Birmingham are commenting on your article published today.


I am putting forward two theories: Either my presence has frightened everyone away or people rather keep quiet on their political views.


Your turn of phrase "...we're going to harbour foreign terrorists" made me smile. You'd prefer the homegrown variety, would you? Still as expensive, dangerous and controversial, if not more so.


England - particularly considering its relatively small size, is the supreme multi cultural society. In the wake of The Empire the chickens have come home to roost under mother hen's wings, and if this weren't your blog, but mine, I'd now let rip on historical facts - at length; and, let's not forget that by Blair putting his finger in the fat American pie of warmongering and siding with big brother, these isles have only themselves to blame if some of the wrath has turned on them.


One can bite one's teeth out on any historical, political, social subject. As to you being "reactionary". Not particularly - I know many people who think like you and always makes for good discussion. At least you haven't called for anyone to thrown into the dungeon, with the key thrown away, yet. Or have you?


U

Roshan Doug said:

Ursula - honestly, if I had it might way I'd bring back the hulks! Dungeons - yes. Throw away the keys? Yes, please - infinitely better than giving them a colour television, DVDs, snooker tables, gyms, educational programmes, one-to-one tutition, whatever vocational/academic programme that takes their fancy, warm accommodation (or it'll be a breach of their human rights!), three decent meals a day (with choices!), Christmas dinners, books, computers - the lot.... whilst a single parent - or people on a humble salary - are trying to make ends meet on beans on toasts and packets of chips. And if they do manage to lift themselves from the vicious circle of poverty and want to gain a qualification - they bloody well have to pay for it!

That's the madness that we have to live with!

Who the bloomin' heck was it who said that crime doesn't pay! Utter tosh!

As for Abu Qatada and Abu Hamza, I find it shocking that our British soldiers are out their fighting al-qaeda in the name of their Queen and country - risking their lives (and,as far as I'm concerned, far too many have died) - whilst those very terrorists their fighting are not only living under our noses, but are using dim-wit, left wing, do-gooders and their pandering to idiotic policies and libertarian world view. These are the very people many on the right are up against - people blind to their own stupidity and folly and who are putting dangerous criminals above law-abiding British citizens.

Arrg!

Anyway... enough of that. I'm going to write a light-hearted post tomorrow morning - something to cheer myself up with.

For the time being, a nice strong glass of scotch beckons, me thinks!

Ursula said:

Roshan, make mine a glass of dusty dry white, unless it's oaked Chardonnay, in which case I'll opt for a Martini,


You argue the case very well; and in many ways I couldn't agree more.


Of course it's terrible that British soldiers die for the causes as outlined by you. But may I remind you that to join the British army is entirely voluntary?


There are many countries, even in Europe, where any able young man can be called upon to do his "duty", with little choice in the matter; short of his mother, wife or sister locking him into a trunk and sitting on it till it's all over.


Back to Britain: When you join the army here, you know there might come a time when you have to fight a pointless battle, not one of your own making, but that of your government's often misguided decisions. Risking your life being part of the job description.


Big subject, Roshan, unfortunately not one that'll run away any time soon.


Cheers.


U

phil said:

Ursula this is overkill. Get a life / a man / a dog / a job / a friend.

Ursula said:

Phil, you are not by any chance the twin of peter d (see R's entry 'foul language don't maketh woman'), are you?


Why do you feel the need to police other people's comments?


The only person to decide and indicate to me whether what I contribute to Roshan's blog is unwanted is the good man himself.


Phil, there is a big difference between arguing a point and personal attack. Please do ask yourself what you are getting out of being so unnecessarily rude; particularly as I can't find much evidence of you having contributed anything to any of the points Roshan has been raising recently.


Oh, yes, hot tip of the day: Why not skip any comment headed "Ursula said" in future? But then you'd miss out on your own little soap opera, wouldn't you?


U

Roshan Doug said:

Heavens! Read this morning that more convicted terrorists - at least three - are going to be let loose from Long Lartin, thanks to the infinite wisdom of our Court of Appeal judges and their ruling in April. These terrorists have also been granted anonymity, just so that they can mingle amongst us and replan to destroy us!

Do you ever get the feeling our judiciary exists in demented world?

What madness!

Either these judges should be locked up or there's something going on behind the scenes that we're not party to. Could our government - along with MI5 - be doing a deal with al-Qaeda? Britain - negotiating with terrorists? Surely not.

Roshan Doug said:

Heavens! Read this morning that more convicted terrorists - at least three - are going to be let loose from Long Lartin, thanks to the infinite wisdom of our Court of Appeal judges and their ruling in April. These terrorists have also been granted anonymity, just so that they can mingle amongst us and replan to destroy us!

Do you ever get the feeling our judiciary exists in demented world?

What madness!

Either these judges should be locked up or there's something going on behind the scenes that we're not party to. Could our government - along with MI5 - be doing a deal with al-Qaeda? Britain - negotiating with terrorists? Surely not.

Ursula said:

My dear Roshan, you are heading into the fairy tale land of 007; not only shaken but stirred.


Without wishing to get poetical: Think of the world as a stage; an illusion. Ever been behind the scenes before the curtain rises and after it's fallen? Exactly.


As opposites (occasionally) attract I have more lawyer and solicitor acquaintances than I care for. They are dry and to the letter, little humour, even less consideration for the human condition and its quirky aberrations.


As to Britain negotiating with terrorists - what other choice is there? One columnist - I'll try and send you the link - argued yesterday that Britain has won the battle already.


U

Roshan Doug said:

Hi Ursula... surprised to find you here on Saturday night. Stuck at home like me?...
On the subject of the absurd ruling by the Court of Appeal, I'm certain our government is negotiating with al-Quaeda. I understand that this is a way forward, but I must admit it sits uncomfortably with me!

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