Are we liberal enough to allow the "heirs of Hitler" to parade in the streets?
John Hemming, the Liberal Democrat MP for Yardley, has likened British National Party supporters who are planning a protest in Birmingham city centre as the "heirs of Hitler parading in Victoria Square".
In the very next breath, or more likely without even pausing for breath, Mr Hemming said he hoped a counter-demonstration against "racial and religious hatred" planned by a coalition of left-wing supporters would be peaceful.
The MP's views are doubtless sincerely held, and his distaste for the far-right BNP and their thinly disguised policies of repatriation for ethnic minorities, is shared by me and, I suspect, by most people in Birmingham and in this country.
But isn't it likely that Mr Hemming and his supporters, with their casual use of inflammatory language, risk ensuring that when right meets left on the streets of Birmingham the result will be anything other than peaceful? Aren't they simply preparing the ground for a dust-up?
BNP supporters plan to lobby a meeting of the General Teaching Council, where a party member who is a teacher in Sunderland faces disciplinary action for allegedly contributing to a website discussion about asylum seekers and homosexuals while taking a class. At stake here is the GTC's view on whether such a person, having extremist political views, is fit to teach children.
There will be a rival, possibly far larger, demonstration against the BNP by Liberal Democrat and Labour councillors and MPs promoting the view that the BNP has "no part to play in a modern multi-party democracy".
Paul Tilsley, the Liberal Democrat deputy leader of Birmingham City Council, in a statement expanding on Hemming's Second World War theme, accused the BNP of supporting "Nazi policies that caused the deaths of 30 million people".
It is Birmingham Respect councillor Salma Yaqoob, however, who takes the harshest view.
Describing the BNP as "not a legitimate political party", she said there could be "no discussion with people who want to remove us from the country".
Coun Yaqoob is fast emerging as someone who gives the impression she wants to stifle debate rather than encourage it.
Earlier this month she joined others in describing a planned visit to Birmingham by Geva Rapp, deputy commander of the Israeli forces in Gaza, as offensive, calling for him to be charged with war crimes.
At first Coun Yaqoob said she was against Col Rapp being given a platform because the meeting would be secret. Then she said his presence in a culturally diverse city was insensitive and ill-timed.
I personally challenged Coun Yaqoob to describe the conditions under which she would agree that Col Rapp should be permitted to address a meeting in Birmingham. A meeting, perhaps, at which both sides of the Gaza argument would be put. She either could not or would not answer.
It is her bald statement that "there can be no discussion" with political parties like the BNP that deeply worries me.
It suits the likes of Coun Yaqoob and Mr Hemming to deny parties on the far-right a public platform.
But it is only a short journey along the road to intolerance to extend such a ban to anyone whose views you don't much like
Older/Newer
« Snow brings out appalling English wimpism | Staying within the rules doesn't help Jacqui Smith »
0 TrackBacks
Listed below are links to blogs that reference this entry: Are we liberal enough to allow the "heirs of Hitler" to parade in the streets?. TrackBack URL for this entry: http://blogs.birminghampost.net/cgi-bin/mt421/mt-tb.cgi/109540
17 Comments
Leave a comment
News authors
Marc Reeves - Editor of The Birmingham Post
My postings |
My feed
Paul Dale - The Birmingham Post's public affairs editor
My postings |
My feed
Subscribe to receive updates by email
Jonathan Walker - The Birmingham Post's political editor
My postings |
My feed
Phil Davis - Board member of Passenger Focus (rail transport passenger group)
My postings |
My feed
Latest Birmingham Post Business blog
Birmingham Post staff and guest bloggers from Birmingham and the midlands inform and entertain on all business matters.
Latest Birmingham Post Lifestyle blog
Birmingham Post staff and guest bloggers from the midlands give you the lowdown on what's happening in your region and some musings on culture in the UK and beyond.
Latest Birmingham Post Sport blog
Birmingham Post staff and guest bloggers from Birmingham and the midlands inform and entertain on all sporting matters.
Paul, sorry, but: Your point is?
U
Ursula, my point is that pretending the BNP is not a legitimate political party and attempting to deny its supporters a public platform, through force if necessary, won't work. It risks descending to their level and will play into their hands by giving the fascists publicity.
Paul's point is clear to the point of transparency.
Tolerance for the views of others is the cornerstone of our democracy.
I consider the BNP's policies repulsive, especially having seen what their messages of hate have done in my home-town of Burnley.
However, Coun. Yaqoob's belief that a legitimate political organisation should be denied a public platform, purely because she disagrees with its views, is intellectual fascism.
Does the Respect councillor believe democratic freedoms are only available to those who share her agenda?
If people wants to give the ‘heirs of Hitler’ a platform, that is their choice. It is also my choice to protest every time the BNP espouse their intolerant and divisive message. Just as it is my choice to protest against perpetrators of war crimes.
I have not called for the law to be used to deny the BNP the right to speak. What I have done is encourage people to demonstrate opposition to them.
The law may recognise the BNP as a “legitimate party”. But, on a moral level, I do not believe that a neo-fascist party whose members have a record of promoting Holocaust denial and racist hatred can be described as truly legitimate.
It is for this moral reason that the Association of Chief Police Officers has decided that membership of the BNP is incompatible with their profession, because the police are there to serve every member of society. I think they are right and that their actions serve to reinforce public confidence in the police. A similar debate is also taking place among Church of England leaders, with some arguing that BNP membership is incompatible with being a member of a Christian clergy committed to inclusiveness.
I am committed to tolerance and pluralism and I am very comfortable with debating different viewpoints. But freedom of speech is not absolute. That is why we have laws preventing incitement to violence. That is why we have laws to guard against incitement of hatred, whether racial, religious or homophobic in nature.
As with every principle, society will debate how it should be applied in context. It is understandable that German society bans the display of Nazi symbols given their particular history. And I fail to see how it is in the interests of racial harmony in this country to treat those who espouse hatred as if they were just another political party.
In the wake of the Holocaust, the world said “never again”. I take that seriously. Never again should there be silence in the face of those who promote racial hatred.
The phrase I used did not call for the demonstration to be banned.
I have found it:
The BNP threatens to demonstrate in the centre of Birmingham in support of a member who is appearing before the General Teaching Council. Birmingham is famous as a vibrant multi-cultural city composed of people from many parts of the world. The BNP wants an exclusively white Britain and is led by a person who has denied the Holocaust and who now blames Muslims for Britain's problems.
It would be sad to see the heirs of Hitler parading in Victoria Square and preaching racial hatred. We call on the people of Birmingham to express peaceful opposition to the politics of racial and religious hatred and to make it clear there is no place in Birmingham for organisations which wish to expel religious and racial minorities.
Why is anyone surprised at these statements by the left parties. These are the same people who have sold this country out.
It's what's called democracy communist style. Now don't rush to argue. Here are a few facts if they are allowed to be published, which I doubt.
Let's take our unelected PM:-
According to Paul Routeledge, his political biographer:-
The crafty - ruthless, even, campaign to secure the safe seat of Dunfermline East for Gordon Brown may appear unsavoury at this distance, that the Communist Party was closely involved in this election process, ostensibly at arm’s length, but in reality at the heart of the wheeler-dealing, was also accepted.
Next we have the Milibands:-
The grandfather Samuel served in the Soviet Army, whilst their father Ralph moved to the safety of Britain.
In true communist style he then attacked the political democracy of the UK - the very country providing him and his family with safety. He later become a leading name in the Marxist movement.
He even had the status and contacts to be buried in Highgate cemetary close to Karl Marx.
The we have the born again Christian Tony Blair whose father Leo Blair worked as a copy boy on the communist Daily Worker and was secretary of the Scottish Young Communist league 1938 - 1941.
Should we trust these people? Only as a rabbit trusts a weasel.
Finally why, oh why do we keep having these tirades against a legal political party. When will we have any details. I have a web site overflowing with the truth about the European Union. If anyone is interested just go on the Encyclopaedia Brittanica site and type in ENGLAND. You will get the following response.
"Despite the political, economic and cultural legacy that has perpetuated its name...England no longer officially exists as a country"
The English are almost the only ethnic group in the world to have been deprived of
their identity without a shot being fired.
The BNP is Britain's future and a fabulous future it will prove to be.
Just...watch this space, because it's British space!
Wouldn't you be better served spewing your racist bile on the Green Arrow site?
In passing, how does the McKlatchie name pass your beloved party's test on Anglo-Saxon purity in the birth line.
It does sound ever so slightly Celtic ...
Coun Yaqoob has every right to support or attend a demonstration. We live in the UK not Saudi Arabia! Here we value democracy and understand that even misguided and ill-informed people should have the right to express themselves. It is part of a process where even when extremist views are expresed counter-argument is developed and the community, as a consequence, is more informed on the issues.
I think that given the emotive nature of some of the issues involved it is incumbent on people of goodwill to take care with the words they use, particularly those who represent others. I also feel that Coun Yaqoob would benefit from a discussion with myself as to how our Union sees the issues in the case. I am not anti-Islamic but I feel that people (even Teachers!) should have the right to criticise that Religion. There are many Muslims and others who will doubtless defend through argument Islamic doctrine.
Had Coun Yaqoob contacted our Union I could have told her that we had no intention of demonstrating and nor had the BNP. Both Solidarity and the BNP had already announced this on their website. Her fears and those of your illiberal Lib Dem were misplaced. The hearing was a procedural and legal one and not a substantive one.
When I went into the building to represent Mr Walker around 12 people were present. Your report says 50. Either they were cunningly disguised as Policemen or more arrived later. In any case there was no trouble. They stood politely behind a thin line of police and no arrests were made. Democracy in action! When we left they had gone. It was a very icy day and as they had no one to shout at I suppose they felt they had made their point.
As to use of the word 'Nazi' and describing these people as 'anti-Fascist' all I can say is that their aim of banning people from jobs on political grounds is in fact something the Nazis did. They stand in that tradition!
Can we please get one small point established,sacking people from jobs because you do not like their views is what Stalin,Mao,Hitler,Mussolini and Franco did.It is FASCIST to take away the job of another person because they do not agree with you.
DO NOT PRETEND TO BE ANTI-FASCIST WHILE DEMANDING A ONE PARTY STATE!
Sacking and banning are the tools of tyranny not freedom!
Standing in front of a building screaming Nazi scum at a group of people could potentially incite both violence and hatred towards that group of people. For someone to pretend to be in favor of plurality and peace amongst diverse groups of people, it seems contradictory to me.
Isn't there some way to demonstrate your point or protest without stooping to the levels of nasty name calling and inciting others to join in this lynch mobbish behavior?
Paul, you got juices going among your readers. I most certainly agree with the gist of your argument: I believe I said to one of your colleagues, Tom Scotney, the other day: Let people spouting their opinions, ideals, ideologies make complete idiots of themselves - in public. Why not? One should always listen, particularly to those we are most likely to disagree with. To know an enemy ... is to study him first.
I say to those commentors on your piece who talk about "incitement": Let's engage brain, guys. We can only be incited to what we let ourselves. It is witin each individual's intelligence, heart and personal morals to decide what's right and what's wrong.
We need to take responsibility for our own personal actions, our response to the world and its many diverse political parties. We are not sheep following the one in front, to then be rounded up by a dog.
U
Ursula, thanks for that. Let's never forget that the first thing Hitler did was to ban his opponents from taking part in public life. Those who seek to deny "extremists" a platform display only their own insecurities.
The biggest problem we have at the moment is with those who would deny freedom of speech to those with whom they disagree.
At this present time we have a large number of Muslims in Birmingham (and in the rest of the UK) who would shut down any rational criticism of Islam on the grounds of "hate speech."
I am with Geert Wilders on this. There must be freedom of speech for all opinions (with the proviso that one may not call for violence against a specific group) and that this freedom of speech should take precedence over and supercede any and all religious sensitivities.
And let's not forget, when it comes to "hate speech", if I were to talk about Muslims in the same way that the Koran talks about non-Muslims, I would be arrested for hate speech under current legislation.
It's time for a more rational and honest discussion, unhindered by political correctness, multiculturalism and cultural relativism, to evaluate the effect that the unchecked expansion of Islam is likely to have on Western society and our Judaeo-Christian civilisation.
The BNP is the future for the UK and more and more people are beginning to feel the same way. I will be voting for the first time in my life this year, and u can bet it will be for the BNP.
Salma Yaqoob claims that “I do not believe that a neo-fascist party whose members have a record of promoting Holocaust denial and racist hatred can be described as truly legitimate.”
Salma’s point about Holocaust denial is nonsense. First, Nick Griffin’s silly remarks about the Holocaust were made ten years ago and have never been repeated best of my knowledge. I have seen nothing about holocaust denial in BNP literature for the last seven years.
Moreover does Salma also think the Christian church is “not legitimate” on the grounds that a bishop has denied the holocaust? Well of course not. Does Salma think that Islam is not legitimate on the grounds that holocaust denial is popular in Muslim circles because of the less than entirely amicable relations between Muslims and Jews. Of course not. I conclude that Salma’s “illegitimacy” claims are entirely contrived.
Salma claims that the BNP is fascist and that it promotes race hatred. No evidence provided. OK, then I’ll call Salma an odious Pol Pot supporting paedophile. No evidence provided. Anyone can do unsubstantiated insults. I dont care for descending to Salma’s level, but if this all Salma can manage then so be it.
As for Salma’s claim that “the Association of Chief Police Officers has decided that membership of the BNP is incompatible with their profession”, this is utterly naive. There is a large amount of support for the BNP in the police. The idea that the police would have VOLUNTARILY decided on the above course is total nonsense. Zee orders vill have come from their political masters.
Salma’s motive’s for her propositions are plain as a pikestaff. She, or her parents are immigrants. Immigrants want the right to security in the UK, and to this end, they want opponents of immigrant suppressed, even outlawed. Likewise, had I been one of the original European migrants to North America, I’d have wanted to have any anti immigrant organisations set up by Red Indians outlawed. Salma, just like the original immigrants to North America, and just like Hitler, just wants to grab Lebensraum.